Alternative for P90X recovery drink?

[Propnose]

After my workout I eat breakfast which includes my protein shake, but is there an alternative to the recovery drink until I purchase it? Also, should I drink the protein shake before working out and then the recovery drink after?

[Dave]

This is a great thread. Here's a blog post with a video that's right on topic: http://www.thefitclubnetwork.com/2011/01/p90x-recovery-formula-drink-alternative/. You want something with a 4:1 (carbs:protein) ratio. That's the magic, but there are a lot of ways to get you there.

[dbervig]

Dave, Have you heard of the "Hard Nutrition" products? Any thoughts on them? They are doing a major advertising push with pro athlete endorsements in the Denver market.

[Dave]

Dave, Have you heard of the "Hard Nutrition" products? Any thoughts on them? They are doing a major advertising push with pro athlete endorsements in the Denver market.

I have not heard of them. What's in them? You've got to dig past the nutrition facts lable and get into the ingredients. A lot of them are packed with sugar. That is a major issue to focus on.

[demaak]

I think I have heard of people mixing whey protein into Orange Juice, but I think maybe I'm missing an ingredient in that because that doesn't sound like it would be close to the 4:1 ratio.

The accelerade product, called Endurox is good, but I like the taste of the P90X recovery drink better. If you get the orange Endurox it tastes like tang. Endurox might be a little cheaper, but what I do is make my Recover Drink last longer by only using one scoop instead of two, unless I'm really sweaty or run on an 85 degree day. To me, the half dose seems just as good and ends up being less sugar and calories, if you're counting those things.

~Krista

[Insanexer]

Usually after a workout you want something with fast acting carbs and protein. After a workout you need fast acting carbs (sucrose or fructose) and fast acting protein (whey), this triggers the process of glycogen re-synthesis which restores your energy and transfers protein to your muscles through the blood stream.
Be sure to match 4:1 carb and protein ratio for perfect recovery. The p90x recovery drink is great BUT a great substitute would be apple/grape juice and whey protein.
The reason I wouldn't use orange is that the citric acid messes up with the protein blocks. But once in a while is fine. Its not the best but not the worst. Apple or Grape juice work.
The sugar can give you a insulin spike working as a nutrient activator for glycogen and protein resynthesis.

[Dave]

Usually after a workout you want something with fast acting carbs and protein. After a workout you need fast acting carbs (sucrose or fructose) and fast acting protein (whey), this triggers the process of glycogen re-synthesis which restores your energy and transfers protein to your muscles through the blood stream.
Be sure to match 4:1 carb and protein ratio for perfect recovery. The p90x recovery drink is great BUT a great substitute would be apple/grape juice and whey protein.
The reason I wouldn't use orange is that the citric acid messes up with the protein blocks. But once in a while is fine. Its not the best but not the worst. Apple or Grape juice work.
The sugar can give you a insulin spike working as a nutrient activator for glycogen and protein resynthesis.

Ladies and Gentleman - Meet Hassan. Hey buddy. Glad you made it to our Boards.

[Insanexer]

:) Thanks Dave. The boards look awesome, you guys did a great job.

[Propnose]

If I were to drink the apple juice with whey protein after my workout, I guess I shouldn't mix up a protein shake also. I do love my protein shake in the morning!

[demaak]

HASSAN! Haha, I beat you here!

I almost always prefer apple juice over orange anyway. Sometimes I crave it. Mmm.

[Insanexer]

Hey Krista!! whats happening these days?

Propnose: You dont need a protein shake after the recovery drink. Your regular meal/snack should be taken 40-60 minutes after the recovery drink.

[mcfc57]

Great information here! I am starting my program tomorrow morning for the first time. I am over-thinking my morning routine. I am new to working out in general and especially the nutrition/supplement side of things.

From what I can piece together from this thread and elsewhere, Beachbody recommends a certain progression. This is what I have tentatively planned for the am. Does this sound about right?

5am Wakeup
5:05am Protein shake (Whey protein mixed with frozen fruit...can you tell I'm a newbie....don't even know if that is right)
5:20 Water and creatine
5:45 Workout
7:15 Recovery drink (Accerlade plus creatine? Grape juice plus whey plus creatine? I have both. Something else entirely?

Also, does the whey protein count as protein for the day on my meal plan? Sorry if this is obvious!?!?!?

[Dave]

Great information here! I am starting my program tomorrow morning for the first time. I am over-thinking my morning routine. I am new to working out in general and especially the nutrition/supplement side of things.

From what I can piece together from this thread and elsewhere, Beachbody recommends a certain progression. This is what I have tentatively planned for the am. Does this sound about right?

5am Wakeup
5:05am Protein shake (Whey protein mixed with frozen fruit...can you tell I'm a newbie....don't even know if that is right)
5:20 Water and creatine
5:45 Workout
7:15 Recovery drink (Accerlade plus creatine? Grape juice plus whey plus creatine? I have both. Something else entirely?

Also, does the whey protein count as protein for the day on my meal plan? Sorry if this is obvious!?!?!?

I think you can skip the pre-workout creatine. If you eat about 30 mins before a workout that should be enough time for everything to settle in your stomach. Everyone is different, so you'll have to play this one by ear.

[mcfc57]

Thanks, Dave.

Well, I started my program today. I should the creatine in my recovery drink be my main source of creatine or is it designed to be a little spike and I should be taking the main dose(s) at another time?

[Dave]

Thanks, Dave.

Well, I started my program today. I should the creatine in my recovery drink be my main source of creatine or is it designed to be a little spike and I should be taking the main dose(s) at another time?

I think you can just take it post workout. I'm not sure if there is some research on creatine indicating that it is better used pre-workout. I've really only used it in connection with the Results and Recovery Formula, which I always take post workout. I do think you want to use the product per the instructions. Dramatic overdoses of creatine can cause problems with organ function. So, just be sure you take the dose that is set on the packaging.

[absolutebica]

So one should consider using Grape Juice instead of Chocolate milk then?

Might make things less gassy actually.

[Dave]

So one should consider using Grape Juice instead of Chocolate milk then?

Might make things less gassy actually.

I think that's worth a try. For me dairy is out, so this could be a good option to restore the glycogen that get's drained from the muscles during high intensity exercise.

[Sterling]

After my workout I eat breakfast which includes my protein shake, but is there an alternative to the recovery drink until I purchase it? Also, should I drink the protein shake before working out and then the recovery drink after?

A great way to take advantage of your endogenous growth hormone and its muscle building and fat ridding properties is to not eat for 1 hour after your workout. However, if you are going to eat right after your workout the best recovery is a whole food meal, i.e. protein, veggie, fruit. low-carb. If ridding body fat is your goal, I'd employ this strategy.

[javideleon]

Hi everybody, I am new here, thanks Dave for your email...

Does someone knows "CytoSport Cytomax Recovery" as a recovery drink, compared with P90X recovery drink.

Thanks!
Javi

[Dave]

Javi - Can't find the nutritional info on it. See if you can track that down and I'll give you some thoughts. This was all I found: http://www.cytosport.com/products/cytomax/cytomax-recovery. Only says the tub size.

[Sterling]

Javi - you really don't 'need' a recovery drink per se, especially if you are trying to lose body fat. Now, if you're running a marathon...that's a different story. A great product for helping to build lean muscle with no calories is a BCAA (branched chain amino acidss) -- Purple Wraath is probably the best on the market.

[Insanexer]

The thing with chocolate milk is that milk is 80% casein and 20% whey. The casein slows the digestion, so while you do get an insulin spike to work as a nutrient activator for protein resynthesis your body wont digest the protein fast destroying one of the purpose of the recovery drink
A recovery drink should only be taken after an intense workout, BCAA are good but in order to restore the diminished levels of glycogen in the blood stream, fast acting carbs such as fructose or sucrose are necessary.

[Sterling]

The thing with chocolate milk is that milk is 80% casein and 20% whey. The casein slows the digestion, so while you do get an insulin spike to work as a nutrient activator for protein resynthesis your body wont digest the protein fast destroying one of the purpose of the recovery drink
A recovery drink should only be taken after an intense workout, BCAA are good but in order to restore the diminished levels of glycogen in the blood stream, fast acting carbs such as fructose or sucrose are necessary.

As long as your workouts, given that they are very intense, are under an hour, your body doesn't need a lot of glycogen to get through the workout. That would pretty much encompass any BB workout (i.e. P90X workouts are usually 45 mins or less of actual workout minus warmup, cooldown, etc). And because we don't use a lot of glycogen during most workouts, 'replenishment' is not necessary, especially if your goal is ridding body fat. In fact, you won't find one expert in body fat loss that will recommend drinking a high-carb (especially high sugar) recovery drink. They will always tell you eat a whole protein and if you eat a carb, make it a whole food, starchy carb.

Additionally, because our bodies are very smart, our bodies take advantage of gluconeogenesis (replenishing glycogen naturally through the liver's response to glucagon).

Multiple studies have been done that looked at recovery and protein synthesis while ingesting a protein only vs a protein and carbohydrate(s) [here's one: http://bit.ly/bD45qG ]; the results showed that the carbohydrate did “not further stimulate post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.” So you don't need a recovery drink to replinish glycogen stores. To mention again, this is another reason that BCAAs are a good idea either before, after, or both -- due to its role in protein synthesis with the added benefit of no calories and no measurable effect on insulin.

Given, there's a lot of semantics here...but, if your goal is building lean muscle while minimizing fat storage and maximizing fat gain, then the best choice is eating a whole food protein post-workout. Your window is 3 hours, but it's best to eat within a 90 minute window. If you are young, already ean and a muscle-building machine then a protein & carb to fuel your muscle building is a great choice.

[dhoyt86]

I have been using the 8oz apple juice with 1/2 scoop of BSN Syntha-6 (very close to the 4:1 ratio you mentioned in an earlier post) for about a week now as my recovery. I work out at 6am, take the recovery immediately after, and then a full 2 scoop breakfast shake with 1 cup of blueberries about 45 minutes to an hour after the recovery. It has made a huge difference on my energy level and soreness. Sterling - what are your thoughts on this?

[Sterling]

If fat loss is your main goal, then I'd stick to a whole food meal after your workout, i.e. chicken, eggs, cottage cheese, etc. with a small amount of a starchy carb if you desire. I haven't looked at the BSN Syntha-6 you mentioned, but you are better off with whole foods when ridding body fat and maintaining/gaining muscle.

[Insanexer]

Have you read the Book Nutrient Timing the Future of sports nutrition by John ivy and Robert Portman. It explains in great detail how there are certain nutrient activators that help with the process of recovery. Including the main one CARBS, others including creatine and L arginine.
Also p90x is an intense workout, you cannot say that your glycogen levels arent lowered with p90x. And remember p90x is not a weight loss program, can it be designed as one? Yes but the intentions of X is to get you into peak shape.

[JimNAZ]

Alright . . . everyone is starting to get me confused . . . You need a recovery drink (4:1 carbs:protein) you don't need a recovery drink . . . AHHHHHHH

This nutrition thing is not easy for a guy who 6 weeks ago was eating 600 calorie desserts at 10 at night! :o

Anyway, I'm in my 2nd week of part 2 of Insanity. I HAVE to workout first thing am so that means pushing play at 4:50. I then have to leave for work by 6:45. So this means I am also eating breakfast around 6:25. Right before the recovery week I was hitting a wall during the workouts. I was also feeling really sore during the day. Now I know some of that is expected especially since I was not very active before. But, it was also suggested that I up my calories since they were low and try a recovery drink.
Well, my calorie intake is higher and I thing they are pretty good calories too. Also, this part 2 I have started to take a recovery drink. (DYI with juice & powder) Well, I am a lot stronger during the workout and I do not feel sore at all during the day. Again, I would expect to be getting in better shape to handle these workouts and my muscles (and body) should be better at recovering from these workouts.
So . . . what is it? Am I just getting better at this or is the recovery drink helping me recover?

I never weighed myself before I started Insanity, but I jumped on a scale while at Costco (hopefully it was working correctly) and I weighed at least a good 5lbs lighter than I have for a long time. I don't want to lose too much weight because I want to replace fat with muscle. The whole reason for this post is because IF a recovery drink is going to restrict my fat loss I want to know about it!

I'm a pretty anal person in general :eek: and have been taking this whole lifestyle change learning process for the most part word for word. I would hate to finish in 3 weeks and find out I was doing something wrong! (I hate wasting time!)

So . . . to keep me from going bonkers (there is no smiley face for that) please explain why a recovery drink is needed and for who?

Many thanks . . .

Jim :confused:

[Sterling]

If you want to lose fat in the most efficient and effective way possible, do not drink a recovery drink. You don't need it. Follow your workouts with a whole food meal.

Keep your carbs relatively low in general. But in your recovery meal (chest, back, legs) include a starchy carb or 2 (potato, sweet potato, etc), with a sizeable serving of protein, veggies and fruit (if you want). You highest carb intake should be after your chest, back, and legs days.

[Insanexer]

Well of course fatloss is different. I was talking about general fitness. Although fruits with some sort of BCAA wont hurt your results.

[Insanexer]

After insanity the recovery drink is a must (on hard workout days). Its a very dumb thing to not take carbs after insanity, insanity is an intense program that burns a lot of calories and definitely decreases your glycogen.
Go ask Steve Edwards, He is the senior fitness advisor of beachbody.
The recovery drink's goal is to help you recover so yes it can reduce soreness. And insanity again is NOT a fatloss program, the goal is to feed the body enough and increase your workload capacity and endurance.

[JimNAZ]

Insanity may not be a fat loss "program", but you can sure burn the fat off if you adjust your diet accordingly. The nutrition guide that came with it starts you off with figuring out your cal intake based on whether you want to lose, maintain or gain weight.
I don't think the "lose" part means muscle . . .

I am going to continue doing the recovery drink this week and see how I feel/look. I will still have 2 more weeks to go with Insanity and then I plan to start P90X. Whats another 90 days to mess with my diet . . .

[Dave]

The term "fat loss program" is a bit of a loaded gun. To me programs like Power90 are "fat loss programs", because they are designed for people that are overweight and need a path to lose weight in a responsible manner (not 10 pounds a week). Insanity is a hardcore workout program. Any hardcore workout program is going to cause you to lose fat and build muscle if you pair it with a solid nutrition plan. I know that I could not have started out with P90X or Insanity. I was simply too out of shape. I was 30 pounds more than I am now, but I was a complete sloth. I grunted every time I got out of a chair and people used to make fun of me when I'd go to pick my golf ball out of the hole (once I finally got it in there). P90 was the fat loss solution I needed. Once I moved on to P90X and Insanity I certainly kept losing fat and building muscle, but my main goal shifted from fat loss to muscle gain. So, I think that's the distinction here.

[CyberFitnessGuru]

I prefer cranberry jouce with raw eggs.

Just my preferance.

Takes some getting used to aslo...

[LOC20]

I don't know if the Gatorade G3 Recovery drink was out when the thread got started or not but I was wondering how it compared to the p90x drink?

[vlad]

Hello all ... i have question regarding proteins ...

most people recommend whey protein as fast acting proteins , Could i substitute whey with FLEX proteins .

I heard that different proteins have different effect on the muscle as well ... FLEX Vs WHEY Vs SOY ?

[dpm]

Hi

I have started my P90x program today. I will be working out in the evenings about 6:30pm. I know I should take the Recovery formula immediately after, but when do I take the protein shake and how many scoops / protein gms.

Also, I am a student and on a tight budget can I substitute the recovery formula with something else??

Thanks

[Scott Young]

Hello,

Before I start the P90X program I am going to dial in my diet plan 1st. Recovery drink, in the past I have used Pro Complex http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products/natural-pro-complex-p-268.html?zenid=4d3e3a7fb1aa04bcd14be7ce36c5657f as my recovery/protein drink. Will this work, or are the fillers in it an issue?

[Dave]

Scott - There are a couple of different theories on this. The P90X recovery formula is a 4:1 (carbs:protein) blend, so it isn't a protein shake. Instead, it is designed to replenish glycogen expended from the muscles during exercise. That's the theory the P90X creators promote. Some other people feel protein is the key ingredient and that carbs are evil monsters. The key is how you feel. Optimum makes good stuff. I'm really not sure that your body can metabolize a full 60g of protein in one sitting, but the supplement is formulated for that. Anyway, just see how you feel. If you continue to be sore, then you should consider something with a higher carb content.

[Scott Young]

Thanks Dave,

I felt fine when I was using the product, but I was not doing intense strength training at the time, so it will take sometime to determine. Something I was thinking about would be to 1/2 the amount and add some fruit to the mix and then the other 1/2 later in the day on one of the snack times.

Oh going with the Classic on your advice rather than Lean.

[Dave]

The fruit is a good idea. If you use some grape juice to mix it with, that will up the sugar/carb content and you'll accomplish that glycogen replacement goal. Watch the calories and don't use more than about 8oz of grape juice.

[FitRunner]

I don't know if the Gatorade G3 Recovery drink was out when the thread got started or not but I was wondering how it compared to the p90x drink?

I was out of Beachbody recovery drink and bought some G3 instead (for post-long run during half-marathon training). and... YUCK! I have nothing to say about the efficacy because I absolutely HATED the way it tasted! It was like trying to drink saltwater, I was thirsty because I had been running in the sun with no shade for two hours, and even with sports drink I was dehydrated, and it was SO SWEET! In addition to sugar, it contains TWO - yes, TWO - artificial sweeteners!

Ok, done ranting... point is I didn't like it one bit. And after that, I went and ordered the sports drink the race was going to have to find out if I'd hate it as much as I did G3! (Luckily, I liked that one!)

Teresa

[erikwennerstrom]

I have always used GNC Mixed Berry Whey Protein after workouts, including long runs and have felt great. I feel it on the days I am out and do not take it. Most days I have a meal within an hour so I get extra nutrients then.

[cath]

After my workout I eat breakfast which includes my protein shake, but is there an alternative to the recovery drink until I purchase it? Also, should I drink the protein shake before working out and then the recovery drink after?

Hi there Im just about to start the px90 myself and have been doing a lot of research for cheaper alternative drinks as it works out expensive if you buy from px90,around $57 a month with postage. Chocolate milk is just as effective and a lot cheaper with a little protein powder which u need anyway for the px90 programme and a little creatine.. Hope this helps

[Dave]

I filmed a video today and wrote a little blog post that you may find helpful on this topic. You'll find it right here: http://www.thefitclubnetwork.com/2011/01/p90x-recovery-formula-drink-alternative/.

Dave

[amommy]

Hello all,
My 15 y/o started the P90X last week. we only have the DVDs and guide from a relative who used it.
He has been asking me to get him the shakes and what to eat before and after. When I used to be a workoutaholic YEARS AGO I used to take a carb shake from GNC before and a protein shake after. I think things have gotten a little more complicated than that. I really do not want him to take creatine, it had a lot of controversy back in the day not sure now. Plus I used it for a while and I broke out all over my face that same month, not sure if that had anything to do with it or coincidence.
Anyway can someone tell me what is safe for a 6'1", 21 y/o looking 15 y/o. He isn't really over weight. his lower body arms shoulders are very fit. He has fat on his chest stomach and sides. He is really embarrassed about small man boobs he still has from when he was a chubby 10 y/o and it's keeping him from joining the school swim team. We thought of surgery and his dr said it would be fine, but I believe he is too young and waiting to see if they go away.

[Dave]

Hey there. I don't think anyone here can say what's "safe" or not. That's pretty loaded. I can tell you that I've never had anyone take recovery formula and have problems. If he's looking to lose weight, my recommendation would be a low carb diet, and it's hard to fit Recovery Formula (40g carbs) into that sort of lifestyle. If he's like most teenagers he's probably getting enough sugar in his diet to restore the glycogen expended from his muscles. That's really what recovery formula does. There is creatine in it as well. There's a video in the post above yours with some alternatives that would probably be better.

PS - I'm not trying to chase anyone off of Recovery Formula here. It is a fine product and I use it on occasion myself. However, I firmly believe that we should focus first and foremost on controlling sugar/carb intake and getting that appropriate to the level of activity going on. You have to look at what's going on in your diet. If you already have over 200g of carbs, then you really have to consider adding something like Recovery Formula, particularly at night. "It's all about insulin". Mark Sisson.

[FitRunner]

Just FYI: creatine is hydrolyzed into creatinine in water solution in a matter of minutes. So if you don't want creatine in your recovery drink but otherwise like the Results & Recovery Formula, just let it sit for a few minutes and the creatine will be destroyed. Conversely, if you really do want it, make sure to drink it immediately upon mixing!

Teresa

[opine1555]

This is a great forum. I'm prepping for my P90X program, which is why I'm doing the background reading, purchasing of gear, etc. Since I am not living in the US, I have to look for alternatives. This forum mentions that the 4:1 formula for the recovery drink should be maintained. In terms of actual proportions (recipe), how much whey protein powder should I put in the fruit juice to have an effective recovery drink?

Many thanks!

[Dave]

It depends on the ingredients. If you go to www.fitday.com, you can find how many grams of carbs are in the fruit you are adding on average. The label on your whey will tell you how many grams of protein there are per serving. Just try to maintain the 4:1 ratio. 3:1 won't hurt you, so you don't have to be super precise.

[jzschiedrich]

Hello everyone...great feedback. Even though some of you seem to have "alternative" recommendations, I can understand how these various options could work for individual body types and work out routines.

I too started doing the P90X program about 3 weeks ago and fear that my wife and I may have been misled by a locally owned GNC store manager. We were guided to believe that we could use the 379 as our pre-work out formula (30 minutes before) to help get some additional "umph" while working out. It was then explained to us by this store manager that after the workout (and no more than an hour afterwards), you needed to intake protein...and that the "Amplify Smoothie" 380 coupled with some fruit (bananas, strawberries, papaya) and 8oz of milk was the best replacement for the P90X drink.

However, I can't find it at any other GNC store...apparently, the GNC we went to the first day was independantly owned and carried some other items. So am I getting jipped here and is there a better alternative? My wife and I are both doing the Lean program within P90X to first lose some unwanted weight and waist inches; but I then plan to move up to the Doubles after we complete this to build more body mass.

Can anyone help? Thanks much.

[TFlowers]

Hi fitness friends! This is GREAT thread and a lot of great options for recovery drinks are being tossed around. In the end, it all depends on what you want to do with your body. Weight loss is important to me (or sustaining my goal weight). I work out at least 6 days a week. I do both an hour of cardio and strength-training just about every day. I used to drink P90x for a recovery drink but have switched to a new recovery drink that my friend who is a trainer turned me on to. I highly recommend it! It's called Bonavitas R12. Unlike P90x it has a lot more vitamins & minerals. It has the same amount of protein (10 grams) but tastes way better! Kind of like horchata, the Mexican rice drink. Yummy! Not to mention it is loaded with antioxidants unlike any other recovery drink. I think it equals 7 cups of blueberries to be exact. My main reason for the switch was the antioxidants and the fact that it has 26 grams LESS OF SUGAR than P90x! And to top it all of, Bonavitas R12 is only 95 calories per serving where as P90x is 220 calories. Hope this info helps! Ladies, I'm sure you all can dig this especially if you're trying to stay in shape and over 30. It's helped me tons! So I don't weight tons! LOL :rolleyes: